Mary Nell Duncan Richter was born on February 17, 1927, in Austwell, Texas, six miles from her hometown of Tivoli, Texas. She was the sixth child of eight children (Laura Mae, 1913; Lawrence (Bubba), 1915; LaDell (Dell), 1918; Maldon, 1922; Darlene, 1925; Mary Nell, 1927; Wayne, 1929; and Gaylan, 1934) born to Mamie Mae Bissett Duncan and Joseph Wesley Duncan, Jr., (left) who were married on January 22, 1913. Mary Nell Duncan was born two and a half years before "Black Thursday" (October 24, 1929), the day when the Stock Market crashed causing the worst economic downturn in the history of the United States.

Mary Nell's father died from the effects of an oil field accident when she was nine years old. At the time (1936), the family was living in Vivian, Louisiana. Mary Nell and her family moved back to Tivoli. The three oldest children had already left home, but Mamie was left to raise five children by herself.

Mary Nell Duncan moved to San Antonio after she graduated from Austwell High School in 1944. She was the salutatorian of her class. She attended Draughon's Business College, but she didn't complete her coursework because she was offered a full-time job at Mountjoy Auto Parts on Fifth Street. She worked at Mountjoy's from November 6, 1944 through November 6, 1947. It was a fateful decision, because her future husband, Louis J. (L.J.) Richter, was working as a mechanic for Butter Krust Bakeries, and he came into Mountjoy to buy parts for the delivery trucks. They married on November 25, 1947, and they had four children (Richard, 1948; Tobin, 1954; Blair, 1957; and Regan Anne, 1965). They have six grandchildren: Kevin (1975), Aaron (1979) and Mark (1983), sons of Richard and Sharon Richter; Aedan Louise (1996), daughter of Blair and Denise Richter; and Katie (1998) and Jen (2001), daughters of Regan and Todd Ebert. Mary Nell and L.J. would have celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary in November of 1997, but L.J. passed away in August of 1997 to Lou Gehrig's Disease. Mary Nell is a member of St. Pius X Catholic Church, she is an avid traveler, and she takes aerobics and line-dancing classes. Mary Nell celebrated her 76th birthday on February 17, 2003.

They didn't have Social Security back then. I think Social Security came into effect in 1936, but Daddy was never covered by Social Security. When we first came back, we lived with my mother's sister and her husband. She sort of had an apartment. You know, they had her house divided, and we lived in part of her house. Not for a real long time. For a few months. And then, my grandfather, my mother's dad, owned a house. Papa Bissett let her have a house that he owned. I think she probably had to pay just $1,000 for that house you see in the picture.(Moved back to Tivoli in 1936.) Mother, over the years, did a lot to this house. Because when we first moved into this house, it didn't have indoor plumbing.

Really?

It had a bathtub. But, I mean, it didn't have a commode. We had an outhouse for quite a number of years. Up in my teens, I know. The house was real dark. It was wood. I remember it being very dark. We used kerosene lamps, you know. We didn't have electricity at the time. But, of course, mother later got electricity. She had kitchen cabinets built in. And, of course, we got the indoor plumbing, and we got it all fixed up over the years.

How many bedrooms were there?

We had the living room, dining room with kitchen, sort of all together. Mother had sort of a divider built when she had other stuff done. It used to be just one big room with the kitchen and dining room. And then there was a little screen porch, so Wayne and Maldon slept on the screen porch. I guess they sort of had a rolled up...

Like a pallet?

No, not a pallet. They had a bed and everything. I mean, the screen-in porch had something you could let down in case it rained. And then, of course, in later years, Mother had that enclosed, too, made into a regular room. And then also, in later years, Maldon, after he came back to live with Mother, he added a bedroom for himself on the other side of the kitchen. When we lived in it when we were growing up, it just had the living room, and it had the one bedroom, but we had two double beds in the bedroom. Of course, Gaylan was just a little, small child when Daddy died. He was not even three years old. So, he slept with Mother, and my sister, Darlene, and I slept together. And then, Wayne and Maldon slept on the porch. Laura was already married. She had her second child right after Daddy died. And Dell, when Daddy died, she was in college in Kingsville. But then, she quit college and she went to work in Corpus. And then, Bubba was married also. They lived in Corpus.

When your Dad died you said there was no Social Security and was there any kind of a settlement? Did the company pay anything?

You know, I really don't know. But I think Mother paid Papa Bissett probably a thousand dollars or eleven-hundred dollars for that house, so I guess she must have gotten some money from somewhere. They always said Mother could stretch a dollar better than anybody, but she always had a garden (carrots, spinach, beets, lettuce, green beans, onions, tomatoes and pinto beans), and, of course, my Grandfather Bissett, Papa Bissett, had the farm. And so, we got...

You had plenty to eat.

We had plenty of food. He brought lots of vegetables, watermelons, and chickens. He gave mother chickens and stuff. They always butchered. You know, like hogs and chickens and all sorts of eggs. Like I say, we had plenty of food. And, like I say, Mother always had a garden.

Vegetables and flowers, right?

Oh yes. Mother had a beautiful yard. Yeah. But we ate a lot of pinto beans and stuff like that. Rice, probably. We did not have meat but on Sunday, maybe. That's when we had meat. We didn't have meat during the week.

Sounds like us! But we don't even eat meat on Sunday! Didn't your Mom go to work, though, after your Dad died? She went to work in the cafeteria?

That was after I left home. I was probably already married. I know I was married when Mother started to work in the school cafeteria. Oh yeah. She never worked while all of us were growing up. She never worked. In later years, she did. After she worked at the school, she got a school pension. She had that. And mother didn't learn to drive herself until she was 75 years old. After Maldon died, she learned how to drive and got her driver's license.

When she was 75?! That's something. Feisty, huh?

Yeah. For sure.

Also, you said that you went to school in Tivoli, but you graduated the last two years from Austwell. How many students? Was it a small school?

Well, yeah. Two small towns, but there weren't many students at all. A couple of hundred maybe at the whole school. I don't know. When I lived there, I think there was about 500 people in Tivoli. That was the population. I don't know what it was in Austwell. All I did was go to school there. (Six miles between Austwell and Tivoli.)

What was it like when you were in school?

We were taught reading and writing and arithmetic.

You're a great speller.

They emphasized that. They emphasized spelling. We used to have spelling bees all of the time. I really liked all of my teachers, and I can remember all of their names. Except, my second grade teacher, I was always afraid of her, but in later years when I got into my teens, I learned to really like her very well. But, I was afraid of her. She was...

Intimidating.

Yeah. (Laughs.) I just remember being afraid of my second grade teacher. But...

You had good teachers.

Well, I liked them all. In Tivoli, you had first and second grade in one room, second and third in another, fourth and fifth in another, and it was like that. And when I was growing up, we did not have basketball or anything like that. I played volleyball and I played softball, and, of course, we used to go to County Meets. I don't know that they have such things any more.

Kind of like UIL stuff. It's not really county, but it's more like district.

We would go to Refugio, Texas. There was Declamations and Picture Memory. That's the only two things that I ever did.

Declamation is where you get up and give a talk, right?

No. It's poetry.

Poetry reading?

You remember it. You didn't read it. You'd say it.

That's what Laura Ingalls Wilder...they would have Declamation. Y'all didn't use McGuffey Readers, did you? That would have been before your time.

I don't remember. I just remember the reading way back then was Jane.

Dick and Jane?

Yeah. Dick and Jane.

What poetry did you have to remember?

I don't even remember my Declamation. I didn't win. We won stuff. We would go in baseball and stuff like that. And we won ribbons for that. And Picture Memory. I won ribbons in Picture Memory.

Now what's Picture Memory?

You had different artwork.

Like, uh... Like, Monet's, or whatever.

I don't know that it was Monet's back then, but they had different Dutch painters.

Like the Masters?

Yeah, the Masters painters, I'll put it that way, yeah. And you studied those pictures and you had to know the name of the picture and the artist. Huh. That's neat.

And they emphasized math, too, right?

Like I say, reading and writing and arithmetic were the things. And back then, we had the Palmer Method of writing. You had all the ovals and the ups and downs.

So who were your best friends in school?

Well, I had Mary Lee Rabke. We went through first grade all the way through high school. We were always competing. She beat me by a point and a half for valedictorian. Her father was Lee Rabke. He and his father ran the lumberyard in Tivoli. She never married. She got her doctorate degree, and she taught down at Pan American College in Edinburgh. And she still lives in that area. She bought property, and she has her cattle and whatever. And then I had Dickie Lee Barber and Mildred Schleider...they were real good friends. I remained friends all those years. I don't see or hear from Dickie too much any more, but Mildred passed away when she was just in her fifties of a heart attack, but up until then, I always visited her in the summertime when she lived in Rockport.

And you still go back to Tivoli to take care of your parents' graves...

The cemetery.

So you get to see people.

Yeah, right, but, of course, a lot of the ones I grew up with don't live there any more.

What kind of chores did you have to do when you were little?

Well, Darlene and I would always take turns washing and drying the dishes. We made our bed. Of course, we had to sort of take care of Gaylan.

And Wayne?

I don't remember too much taking care of him, but Gaylan was five years younger than I was, so when he was little, I can remember having to rock him and whatever.

What did you do in your leisure time?

Well, we used to play games. And we played outdoors. Children nowadays don't play outdoors like we did. We played mumbly peg and jump rope and marbles.

What's mumble peg?

It's a deal with a knife. I don't even remember all the things, but you held the knife. And you had to have a soft piece of ground. Throw it over your shoulder. Sounds kind of dangerous. (Laughs.) But we played it always.

With a sharp knife?

It was a pocketknife.

Really? No accidents? No thumbs cut off or anything?

No.

Did you play jacks?

Yeah, we played jacks.

What about paper dolls?

Oh yeah, paper dolls, yeah. I never did have too many real dolls. I can remember one that somebody gave me. It wasn't my mother or father. Somebody gave me a doll one year. A real pretty one. But, that's the only doll I can ever remember having. I used to enjoy looking at the Sears Catalog and looking at the dolls. (Laughs.)

On this video (Myers) showed us in class, there were these two girls, I guess they were cousins, they always used to fight over who was going to get the doll in the Sears Catalog, because they didn't have any idea that there was more than one. "That's going to be mine." "No, it's mine." Little did they know that there was a warehouse full of dolls that all looked the same.

We did not get a newspaper, but every Sunday, we would go up to Aunt Matt and Aunt Mag's--they weren't really our aunts, but we always called them Aunt Matt and Aunt Mag--and so they would let us have the Sunday paper. So that's really where I got my paper dolls from. Tillie the Toiler, and Betty Boop, I think, was one of them, that they used to have paper dolls in the Sunday newspaper.

Was it the San Antonio paper? Or the Victoria paper?

I think it was probably the Houston Chronicle. We used to make oatmeal boxes...we'd use to make little beds and whatever.

For your doll furniture?

Yeah.

What about radio? Did you ever listen to radio?

We did. And there used to be things on there like Little Orphan Annie. And we used to order our pins. I guess it was Ovaltine, I think was the deal, I guess it was advertised on Little Orphan Annie...and so you had to get Ovaltine to get your pin and it had a secret code. (Laugh.)

My Dad listened to Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy, and he used to order some kind of secret code ring. I think he had some kind of little crystal set that he made and he would listen to it. So what other shows would you listen to besides Little Orphan Annie?

Oh gosh, in later years, we would listen to the Hit Parade. Other than that, I don't remember too much.

You didn't listen to The Shadow or the Lone Ranger?

I think Lone Ranger was in later years, when my children were small.

On the radio?

No, on TV.

Do you remember what year you got a television?

Oh, they didn't even have TV until I was married and living in San Antonio. It was like 1950 or 1951.

What year did you get married?

'47.

You got married in '47.

Uh huh.

So you didn't have a television growing up?

Oh, no. No, no. We just had radio.

What about...did you ever go to the movies?

On occasion we'd go to Port Lavaca. And then, of course, in the summers, I used to spend the summer with Mrs. Schley , and Ethlyn was her daughter. They'd come get me in the summer and I would stay in Victoria and so I got to see a lot of movies. She would come to Tivoli. Mrs. Schley was just a good family friend. They used to live in Tivoli many years ago, and I don't know why they chose me to go...

She had a daughter your age?

Oh no. Ethlyn was grown and working. All her children were grown. I don't know why. Beats me. But it was a fun time in the summertime for me. I had a lot of fun. I had a lot of nice friends that I met in Victoria...you know neighbors and friends of Mrs. Schley .

How old were you when you did that?

Oh gosh, I went up there for many years. I was in my teens, I mean, my early years. I was probably 12, but I went before then, because when I was about 13, I know I was working for Aunt Matt in the Dry Goods Store, especially when they had all the cotton pickers---would come in the summertime--so I worked in the Dry Goods Store.

What did you do?

I waited on customers. And I swept the floors. Did stuff like that. I don't know how much I earned, but I earned a little spending money, whatever. I spent most of it on stuff out of the Dry Goods Store. (Laughed.) I bought material and stuff. I know this one summer, Ethlyn needed somebody to cook. She had married. She didn't marry until she was 35 years old. She had an apartment, so she wanted me to come to Victoria and have the evening meal cooked and clean her house.

She was working?

Oh yeah. She worked for a lawyer. She always did. In later years, she became the sheriff of Victoria County.

Huh!

Anyway, Aunt Matt was very upset because I left and went to Victoria and did that, but I did that when I was a teenager. And also, when I was a teenager, I don't even know that I was in high school, but I might have been in high school, I worked in the telephone office. You know back then, you had to plug in the numbers.

Like those cable things?

Yeah. You stuck them in. Wow!

How did you learn how to do that?

Well, the lady who owned it just taught me.

So you had to plug people in...they'd ring you up.

Uh-huh. It would ring and you would answer, and they would tell you what number they wanted...or if it was long distance call. It was just a switchboard.

For Tivoli? All of Tivoli?

Yeah.

And you did that when you were in high school?

Well, I was probably younger than that. I probably was 13 when I got my Social Security number. Because they didn't get Social Security numbers for babies then. When you started to work, you got your Social Security number.

And you would do that in the summers?

Oh, I did it other times, like on the weekends, if she wanted to go somewhere or sometime at night. Or maybe even holidays. I can remember Mother and them bringing food to me when I'd be working there.

That's neat.

The telephone office was in the Fridays' home...in the front of their home.

Huh. Not like Southwestern Bell or anything. It was just right there in their house.

Yeah.

Where did you shop? You said you liked looking at the Sears and Roebuck Catalog. Did y'all buy from Sears and Roebuck?

Oh sure. We ordered from Sears and Roebuck.

What did you get?

I don't know. I suppose clothes or whatever. Most anything. When you lived in a small town, that's what you did. Mother didn't have a car. We didn't have a car. I can remember when we went to Louisiana, we had a car. But that's the only car I can remember. My older sisters would talk about a Model Ts and stuff they had, but, of course, after Daddy died, we did not have a car. We walked everywhere. Tivoli's small enough.

Everything you needed you could walk to.

Right. You could go to church, to the grocery store, to school. And then when we went to high school in Austwell, there was one year, in eleventh grade, there was a family--they had sort of a van, I guess you'd say--I guess the school paid that family to take us. And then, my senior year, we rode with a teacher who taught there. She lived in Tivoli, and we rode with her. Not like today, when all these kids have cars to go down the street. (Laughs.)

Where else did you shop?

When I was growing up, Tivoli was a really nice little town. They had the Mercantile, which was hardware, dry goods and groceries, and we had several drug stores and a number of cafes. What is now a cafe used to be the auditorium in town, and they used to have dances. Across from the auditorium was a beer joint, and then they had a pool hall, and a lot of service stations. We didn't have a Dairy Queen or anything back then. They do have a Dairy Queen now. There's not much else in Tivoli. There's a little tearoom they've opened, but, like I say, there's hardly anything left in Tivoli. All the Main Street, where they had the Dry Goods Store, and we had two or three grocery stores. Mr. Worden had a grocery store and Elvita Herrera had a meat market when I was growing up. And, the Crews had the drug store and a cafe combined. And Edward Carroll had his drug store, which was in the same building as the post office. Now, like I say, everything has changed now, because none of that is there anymore. Oh, and we had Henry Garza also had a grocery store. It was a nice little thriving town. And it did well.

Did most people work in the lumberyard? Or in cotton? Or ranching?

I guess they were mostly farmers. A big lot of cotton and grain. Of course, my grandfather had all sorts of stuff. He had fruit trees and he had all kinds of vegetables that he raised. And he raised cotton.

But no oil? There was some oil they found down there, but they didn't find any oil on his land.

No.

Too bad. (Laughed.) Your Mom's house was close to the lumberyard, right?

Yes. Right across the street. But then she moved it later because the lint and stuff from the gin was so bad it was ruining all of her flowers and everything else, so they moved.

They just picked it up and moved it?

Yeah. It was on blocks. They moved it out to an acre outside of town...on the other side of town, anyway.

How long did your Mom live?

She lived to be 90 years old.

She was one feisty woman to be able to raise eight children.

Yes. Of course, there were only five of us at home when Daddy died. But Daddy was just 49. He had just had his forty-ninth birthday.

Hum. That's awful.

Uh-huh.

Where did you go to church?

Presbyterian Church. In Tivoli, they had a Baptist Church, a Presbyterian Church, a Catholic Church, and an Assembly of God Church. Those were the churches.

Your Mom was Presbyterian.

Uh-huh. My father was actually Catholic, but I don't know how much he attended the Catholic Church. I don't remember him ever going to church.

So you were raised Presbyterian? Then when you married L.J., you became Catholic. Before or after?

Before. I became Catholic in August, and we were married in November. I had to take instructions.

You graduated from Austwell High School in 1944 and moved to San Antonio?

I went to Draughon's Business College. Actually I didn't complete my complete course. Mountjoy Auto Parts--Mr. Craighead, he was the office manager of Mountjoy Auto Parts--came to the business college to get somebody to work in the office, so I decided to quit school and go to work.

It was a fateful decision, because it was right across from the bakery, right?

No. Oh no. It was on 5th Street. L.J. was a mechanic. When he got out of the service, his father started him at the very bottom. He had him work at the garage at the bakery, and Mr. Meadows was a salesman at Mountjoy, and when L.J. came in to get parts, he introduced me to him.

What year was that?

I think it was in 1946. I had my first date with him on July 13, 1946.

When did you all get married?

November 25, 1947.

Where did y'all go on your first date?

The Richter Ranch, I'll say that.

South of town, right? Kind of out by Palo Alto, I believe.

Yeah, out that direction. We went out there, and he had a jeep. He had bought a jeep when he got out of the service. So, our first date was in a jeep. (Laugh.) His older sister, Rosemary, had a lot of her friends out there.

Who were your neighbors in Tivoli? Aunt Matt (Mattie Tom) and Aunt Mag (Maggie/Margaret)?

They weren't our neighbors. They were Mother and Daddy's neighbors when they first got married. We lived a good little piece from them. It wasn't too far to walk.

Now where was their store?

It was downtown on Main Street. In later years, Aunt Matt built it on the corner of the highway, on 35, and Main Street. The Simms were our neighbors and we had the Carrolls and also the Burchers and uh, I was trying to think, of course, across the highway was the Schultzes. Mr. Schultz had a Texaco Service Station, and he owned a bunch of houses. And I can remember living in one, two or three of those houses when I was little. They were a Schultz house. Rental houses. Before we moved to Louisiana, we were living in a Huffman house, which was in a different part of town from all the Schultz houses. The Schultz houses were all along Highway 35. Mr. Huffman's houses were along--What is that highway?--Highway 111 or something? That other highway that goes into Tivoli.

So it wasn't until after your Dad died that your Mom had the money to buy a house.

Yeah. Right. And that's only because Papa let her have it cheap. No, we always had to rent houses, as far as I know. Well except Mother and Daddy when they first married they had their house. I don't know how long they had it or how long they lived there. But otherwise, when I was growing up, we lived in rent houses.

Did you celebrate holidays growing up?

Oh, yeah. We always had holidays. Always had a Christmas tree. I can't say we got much--you didn't get stuff like kids do nowadays---we probably got one item.

Like what did you get?

Oh, I don't know. I can't really offhand remember. I remember one year Mother gave me a little lamp. I have to say I was a little disappointed. I was probably wanting a doll or something. (Laughed.)

Well, she gave you something useful.

I don't remember. I don't have a good memory for younger years.

But did you usually get a present for your birthday?

I don't especially remember getting gifts. It's not like birthdays nowadays, and I don't especially remember getting gifts. We always had a birthday cake. And, I didn't have a party until I was, in fact it was the year we moved to Louisiana. I was nine and Wayne was seven. We had a birthday party together that year. That's the only birthday party I remember ever having. Except my seventy-fifth! (Laughed.)

When we surprised you! That was fun. That was a fun party. Did y'all ever do anything for Fourth of July?

Oh yeah! Papa Bissett always had Bar-B-Qs for the Fourth of July. Fourth of July's were always fun. We always went to the bay. Sometimes we'd go down to Rockport or Mills Wharf, which was outside of Tivoli, and yeah, Papa Bissett, he had all of his brothers and sisters. They were a big family. And he always had Ol' Walter, a black man from Tivoli, Papa always took him to bar-b-q the meat.

On the beach?

It wasn't on the beach. But we could go swimming.

What about Thanksgiving?

We always had Thanksgiving.

Did you know your Dad's parents very much?

No, I really didn't. Laura and Dell used to spend time down at the ranch, but I never did as a kid. Daddy used to take us down there. But see, he wasn't at home. In my memory, he wasn't home much. From the time I can remember, he was away working. He worked in Refugio. He would come home on the weekends.

What did he do in Refugio?

He worked in the oil fields. So, he had to have had a car to drive back and forth to Refugio. It's sure to have been the same car we drove to Louisiana.

But Laura and Dell got to know his Mom and Dad?

Yeah. Laura and Dell both spent time at the ranch. I don't know why I didn't. I just never did.

Your paternal grandfather died before you were born. What about your paternal grandmother?

She lived to be 89. She and Aunt Mary lived down on the ranch always. Aunt Mary never married. There was a guy who lived there who helped. Over the years, after Daddy died, Aunt Mary would come to town and sometimes she would bring Mother some groceries, too. But she didn't come to town real often. It wasn't that far. The ranch was only seven miles from Tivoli. The roads weren't that good.

So you really didn't ever really know your paternal grandmother?

Well I knew her, but I just wasn't close to her like I was to my mother's mother, because I spent a lot of time out at Grandma and Papa Bissett's. We could walk out there, too. It was a pretty good little walk, but we could walk to the country where they lived. I used to go out there a lot of times, 'cause, Grandmaw did so much canning. They had fruit trees and whatever. I'd go out there and help her with canning. I remember peeling peaches and plums and stuff and all this stuff she would can. They had orchards and grape vineyards and all sorts of stuff. I spent a lot of time at Grandmaw and Papa's. I liked Aunt Mary and Grandma Duncan, but I just wasn't close to them.

Well, it wasn't within walking distance, and you didn't have a car. You said you spent time in Victoria. What about San Antonio?

Oh yeah. We spent a lot of time in the summer with Aunt Recie (Mother's sister) and Uncle Arthur. They'd come and get us. Uncle Arthur was a traveling salesman at that time, and he used to call on Aunt Matt. He, at one time, that was part of his territory. He worked for A.B. Frank. In later years, he worked for some other dry goods store, but I remember A.B. Frank very well. So he would pick you all up and bring you back? Yeah. Wayne and I spent a lot of time together. That one summer (1936), Darlene and I were there. In that one picture, you can see her foot turned up. She was next door, and the guy next door had a soldering iron she stepped on.

Oh my God! I bet that hurt.

Yeah. She had a big blister on the bottom of her foot.

Did y'all ever go to Corpus?

Well, when Dell was working there. Mrs. Lenette Adkins, I know on occasion--She had daughters that were a little older. She had one Darlene's age and one Maldon's age--but anyway, I remember Clarkita, the oldest daughter, had to have braces, so they had to go to Corpus pretty often, so I'd ride down with them sometime and visit Dell.

The trips you took were mainly in Texas, right? Because you're quite the traveler now.

I love to travel now. I never went anywhere. I did go one year--no two years--somebody, I don't remember if it was Mr. Adkins, I don't remember who, but a couple of nice gentlemen in Tivoli paid for me to go to the Presbyterian Encampment in Kerrville. I remember one year Dickie and I rode up on the bus, and we had to change buses. Another year, I guess the Barbers, Dickie's mother and dad, took us to Kerrville the first year I went. That was a lot of fun, too. I guess we were probably there two weeks.

How old were you?

I was a teenager. Somewhere along 12 or 13.

When you went to work at Mountjoy, your friend from Alice...what's her name?

Yes. Bernice Davenport. Her maiden name was May. She was from Wharton, Texas. She wasn't married at the time. She didn't marry until she was 34. She was almost twice my age. I was 17. She's at least 15 years older than I am. She sort of took me under her wing, because I was fresh out of high school. We became good friends then and have been friends forever. Just like Marian, who lives out in California. We still keep in touch.

Now where'd you meet Marian?

At Mountjoy, too. Those are my two good friends from Mountjoy that I still keep in touch with.

So how long did you work at Mountjoy?

Just three years. I started on November 6, 1944, and I quit November 6, 1947. L.J. went to AIB in Chicago in 1948 for five months. We were there from March until the end of August. That was really nice. We had a lot of good times there. I spent a lot of time at Marshall Fields. I'd get on the subway and go downtown.

That was a change from Tivoli! (Laughed.)

Even San Antonio! While we were there, we lived at the Sheridan Plaza Hotel, and we were close to the subway. It wasn't too many miles away. It was on Sheridan Road.

Then Rick was born in 1948?

Right. October 28, 1948. Toby came July 18, 1954. Blair on August 27, 1957, and Reg on July 31, 1965.

Your sister, Dell, who is nine years older, is still living in Corpus. It's her son, Robert, who gave me all of these pictures. And then your brother, Gaylan, is still alive in Victoria. In Tivoli, did y'all feel the Depression? The crash was in 1929. You said you had a garden and always had food.

I always feel like I had...I mean, it didn't affect me...I had a good time growing up, even though we lived in a small town. I mean I liked my life growing up. I wouldn't want to change anything about it.

You never felt deprived or anything?

No. I really didn't. Didn't know any better. I didn't feel deprived at all.

You're like me, though, we both like a good bargain. Do you think your mother influenced you on that?

Well, I just think it's because...even though I can afford most anything I want nowadays, I still conserve because of my growing up. When you had very little, you just don't splurge...at least I don't. I think it's because of my background.

And you like to clip coupons.

Yep. Right.

Did your mother sew for you?

Oh, for sure. She always sewed. We almost always, though, got--I can remember at Easter time we'd get white sandals. That might have had something to do with Aunt Matt, because I think she may have given us stuff. We always had new pair of shoes for Easter.

And an Easter dress?

I don't know particularly, but I think maybe we did...because for years when I was growing up, I always thought that I had to have a new dress for Easter. I still, more or less, do that. (Laugh.) Something new to wear for Easter.

Did she make clothes out of flour sacks?

Mother always had material. She had bought patterns. I had a lot of pretty dresses over the years that she made. I had some bought dresses, too. Especially when I was a teenager. You know we'd go to Victoria. They had some nice stores there. I can remember shopping some at Penney's...and they had a store called Levy's that had real nice clothes.

Can you think of anything else I'm leaving out?

I know, as a kid, we spent a lot of time outdoors. When we lived at the Huffman house, I remember there was a vacant lot back of our house that had a big huisache tree, and we spent many hours sitting up in the tree.

Really? That's neat. You know, I'm fascinated by your not having indoor plumbing until you were older.

Well at night, you had what they called a slop jar. It had a lid, and if you had to go to the bathroom at night, you used that. But during the day, you just went to the two-holer. It was just a big, tall thing. And I can remember how Mother had to put lye down in there.

Did y'all have toilet paper?

Well, you know, for many years, we just used the Sears-Roebuck Catalog.

Really?!

Really! In later years, we did have toilet tissue, but I can remember years when we just had the catalog.

Huh! Thank you Mr. Sears! (Laughter.)

Texans and The Great Depression
Red River Authority's Ben H. Procter's overview of Texans' lives during The Great Depression.

Songs of the Great Depression
Prepared by Professor Catherine Lavender for courses in The Department of History, The College of Staten Island of The City University of New York.

The Great Depression and The New Deal
Definitions of key terms
Causes of the Great Depression
Problems of the Great Depression
Philosophies of President Hoover and President Roosevelt
Successes and failures of Roosevelt's
New Deal programs
Legacy of the New Deal in comparison with other Deals

Photographs of the Great Depression
Dust Storms
Farms for Sale
Relocating: On the Road
Migrant Workers
Women and Children
Life During the Depression
Unemployed
Breadlines and Soup Kitchens
Civilian Conservation Corps

Timeline of The Great Depression 1920-1939

Herbert Hoover Presidential Library and Museum
President Hoover's library's "take" on The Great Depression.

Surviving the Dustbowl
PBS's "American Experience" series, which explored the era of The Great Depression.

The Great Depression in Children's Books
From Carol Hurst's Children's Literature site.

Recipes of The Great Depression
Features "Poor Man's Casserole," "Hot Dog Casserole," and "Stuffed Cabbage".

The Great Depression and World War II, 1929-1945
Library of Congress' site on this period in our nation's history.

The Great Depression: An International Disaster of Perverse Economic Policies
Book by Thomas E. Hall and J. David Ferguson

"The History of Refugio County, Texas," The Refugio County History Book Committee of The Texas Extension Homemakers Council of Refugio County (1836-1986 Sesquicentennial), Lucas Dubois, Sr., and Mary Angelique Landry (F67) entry by Lucile Fagan Snider.

E-mail comments and queries to Denise Barkis Richter, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, Communications Department, Palo Alto College, 1400 W. Villaret Ave., San Antonio, Texas 78224.