Interview conducted in Mary Nell Richter's home,
255
Rockhill Dr., San Antonio, Texas
May 23, 2003
By Denise Barkis Richter, Ph.D.
Mary Nell Richter's daughter-in-love
Mary Nell Duncan Richter was born on February 17, 1927, in Austwell,
Texas, six miles from her hometown of Tivoli,
Texas.
Mary Nell's father died from the effects of an oil field accident when she
was nine years old. At the time (1936), the family was living in Vivian, Louisiana.
Mary Nell and her family moved back to Tivoli.
The three oldest children had already left home, but Mamie was left to raise
five children by herself.
What did your Mom do? Here she is with eight children.
They didn't have Social
Security back then. I think Social Security came into effect in 1936, but
Daddy was never covered by Social Security. When we first came back, we lived
with my mother's sister and her husband. She sort of had an apartment. You know,
they had her house divided, and we lived in part of her house. Not for a real
long time. For a few months. And then, my grandfather, my mother's dad, owned
a house. Papa Bissett let her have a house that he owned. I think she probably
had to pay just $1,000 for that house you see in the picture.(Moved back to
Tivoli in 1936.) Mother, over the years, did a lot to this house. Because when
we first moved into this house, it didn't have indoor plumbing.
Really?
It had a bathtub. But, I mean, it didn't have a commode. We had an outhouse for quite a number of years.
Up in my teens, I know. The house was real dark.
It was wood.
How many bedrooms were there?
We had the living room, dining room with kitchen, sort of all together.
Mother had sort of a divider built when she had other stuff done. It used to be
just one big room with the kitchen and dining room. And then there was a little
screen porch, so Wayne and Maldon slept on the screen porch. I guess they sort
of had a rolled up...
Like a pallet?
No, not a pallet. They had a bed and everything. I mean, the screen-in
porch had something you could let down in case it rained. And then, of course,
in later years, Mother had that enclosed, too, made into a regular room. And
then also, in later years, Maldon, after he came back to live with Mother, he
added a bedroom for himself on the other side of the kitchen. When we lived in
it when we were growing up, it just had the living room, and it had the one
bedroom, but we had two double beds in the bedroom. Of course, Gaylan was just a
little, small child when Daddy died. He was not even three years old. So, he
slept with Mother, and my sister, Darlene, and I slept together. And then, Wayne
and Maldon slept on the porch. Laura was already married. She had her second
child right after Daddy died. And Dell, when Daddy died, she was in college in
Kingsville. But then, she quit college and she went to work in Corpus. And then,
Bubba was married also. They lived in Corpus.
When your Dad died you said there was no Social Security and was there any
kind of a settlement? Did the company pay anything?
You know, I really don't know. But I think Mother paid Papa Bissett
probably a thousand dollars or eleven-hundred dollars for that house, so I guess
she must have gotten some money from somewhere. They always said Mother could
stretch a dollar better than anybody, but she always had a garden (carrots,
spinach, beets, lettuce, green beans, onions, tomatoes and pinto beans), and, of
course, my Grandfather Bissett, Papa Bissett, had the farm. And so, we got...
You had plenty to eat.
We had plenty of food. He brought lots of vegetables, watermelons, and
chickens. He gave mother chickens and stuff. They always butchered. You know,
like hogs and chickens and all sorts of eggs. Like I say, we had plenty of food.
And, like I say, Mother always had a garden.
Vegetables and flowers, right?
Oh yes. Mother had a beautiful yard. Yeah. But we ate a lot of pinto
beans and stuff like that. Rice, probably. We did not have meat but on Sunday,
maybe. That's when we had meat. We didn't have meat during the week.
Sounds like us! But we don't even eat meat on Sunday! Didn't your Mom go to
work, though, after your Dad died? She went to work in the cafeteria?
That was after I left home. I was probably already married. I know I
was married when Mother started to work in the school cafeteria. Oh yeah. She
never worked while all of us were growing up. She never worked. In later years,
she did. After she worked at the school, she got a school pension. She had that.
And mother didn't learn to drive herself until she was 75 years old. After
Maldon died, she learned how to drive and got her driver's license.
When she was 75?! That's something. Feisty, huh?
Yeah. For sure.
Also, you said that you went to school in Tivoli, but you graduated the last
two years from Austwell. How many students? Was it a small school?
Well, yeah. Two small towns, but there weren't many students at all. A
couple of hundred maybe at the whole school. I don't know. When I lived there, I
think there was about 500 people in Tivoli. That was the population. I don't
know what it was in Austwell. All I did was go to school there. (Six miles
between Austwell and Tivoli.)
What was it like when you were in school?
We were taught reading and writing and arithmetic.
You're a great
speller.
They emphasized that. They emphasized spelling. We used to have
spelling bees all of the time. I really liked all of my teachers, and I can
remember all of their names. Except, my second grade teacher, I was always
afraid of her, but in later years when I got into my teens, I learned to really
like her very well. But, I was afraid of her. She was...
Intimidating.
Yeah. (Laughs.) I just remember being afraid of my second grade
teacher. But...
You had good teachers.
Well, I liked them all. In Tivoli, you had first and second grade in
one room, second and third in another, fourth and fifth in another, and it was
like that. And when I was growing up, we did not have basketball or anything
like that. I played volleyball and I played softball, and, of course, we used to
go to County Meets. I don't know that they have such things any more.
Kind of like UIL stuff. It's not really county, but it's more like district.
We would go to Refugio, Texas. There was Declamations and Picture
Memory. That's the only two things that I ever did.
Declamation is where you get up and give a talk, right?
No. It's poetry.
Poetry reading?
You remember it. You didn't read it. You'd say it.
That's what Laura Ingalls Wilder...they would have Declamation. Y'all didn't
use McGuffey
Readers, did you? That would have been before your time.
I don't remember. I just remember the reading way back then was Jane.
Dick and Jane?
Yeah. Dick and
Jane.
What poetry did you have to remember?
I don't even remember my Declamation. I didn't win. We won stuff. We
would go in baseball and stuff like that. And we won ribbons for that. And
Picture Memory. I won ribbons in Picture Memory.
Now what's Picture Memory?
You had different artwork.
Like, uh... Like, Monet's, or whatever.
I don't know that it was Monet's back then, but they had different Dutch
painters.
Like the Masters?
Yeah, the Masters painters, I'll put it that way, yeah. And you studied
those pictures and you had to know the name of the picture and the artist. Huh.
That's neat.
And they emphasized math, too, right?
Like I say, reading and writing and arithmetic were the things. And back
then, we had the Palmer
Method of writing. You had all the ovals and the ups and downs.
So who were your best friends in school?
Well, I had Mary Lee Rabke. We went through first grade all the way through
high school. We were always competing. She beat me by a point and a half for
valedictorian. Her father was Lee Rabke. He and his father ran the lumberyard
in Tivoli. She never married. She got her doctorate degree, and she taught down
at Pan
American College in Edinburgh. And she still lives in that area. She bought
property, and she has her cattle and whatever. And then I had Dickie Lee Barber
and Mildred Schleider...they were real good friends. I remained friends all
those years. I don't see or hear from Dickie too much any more, but Mildred
passed away when she was just in her fifties of a heart attack, but up until
then, I always visited her in the summertime when she lived in Rockport.
And you still go back to Tivoli to take care of your parents' graves...
The cemetery.
So you get to see people.
Yeah, right, but, of course, a lot of the ones I grew up with don't
live there any more.
What kind of chores did you have to do when you were little?
Well, Darlene and I would always take turns washing and drying the
dishes. We made our bed. Of course, we had to sort of take care of Gaylan.
And Wayne?
I don't remember too much taking care of him, but Gaylan was five years
younger than I was, so when he was little, I can remember having to rock him and
whatever.
What did you do in your leisure time?
Well, we used to play games. And we played outdoors. Children nowadays
don't play outdoors like we did. We played mumbly
peg and jump rope and marbles.
What's mumble peg?
It's a deal with a knife. I don't even remember all the things, but you
held the knife. And you had to have a soft piece of ground. Throw it over your
shoulder. Sounds kind of dangerous. (Laughs.) But we played it always.
With a sharp knife?
It was a pocketknife.
Really? No accidents? No thumbs cut off or anything?
No.
Did you play jacks?
Yeah, we played jacks.
What about paper dolls?
Oh yeah, paper dolls, yeah. I never did have too many real dolls. I can
remember one that somebody gave me. It wasn't my mother or father. Somebody gave
me a doll one year. A real pretty one. But, that's the only doll I can ever
remember having. I used to enjoy looking at the Sears Catalog and looking at the
dolls. (Laughs.)
On this video (Myers) showed us in class, there were these two girls, I guess
they were cousins, they always used to fight over who was going to get the doll
in the Sears Catalog, because they didn't have any idea that there was more than
one. "That's going to be mine." "No, it's mine." Little did they know that there
was a warehouse full of dolls that all looked the same.
We did not get a newspaper, but every Sunday, we would go up to Aunt
Matt and Aunt Mag's--they weren't really our aunts, but we always called them
Aunt Matt and Aunt Mag--and so they would let us have the Sunday paper. So that's
really where I got my paper dolls from. Tillie
the Toiler, and Betty Boop,
I think, was one of them, that they used to have paper dolls in the Sunday newspaper.
Was it the San Antonio paper? Or the Victoria paper?
I think it was probably the Houston Chronicle. We used to make oatmeal
boxes...we'd use to make little beds and whatever.
For your doll furniture?
Yeah.
What about radio? Did you ever listen to radio?
We did. And there used to be things on there like Little
Orphan Annie. And we used to order our pins. I guess it was Ovaltine, I
think was the deal, I guess it was advertised on Little Orphan Annie...and so
you had to get Ovaltine to get your pin and it had a secret code. (Laugh.)
My Dad listened to Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy, and he used to order
some kind of secret code ring. I think he had some kind of little crystal set
that he made and he would listen to it. So what other shows would you listen to
besides Little Orphan Annie?
Oh gosh, in later years, we would listen to the Hit
Parade. Other than that, I don't remember too much.
You didn't listen to The Shadow or the Lone Ranger?
I think Lone Ranger
was in later years, when my children were small.
On the radio?
No, on TV.
Do you remember what year you got a television?
Oh, they didn't even have TV until I was married and living in San
Antonio. It was like 1950 or 1951.
What year did you get married?
'47.
You got married in '47.
Uh huh.
So you didn't have a television growing up?
Oh, no. No, no. We just had radio.
What about...did you ever go to the movies?
On occasion we'd go to Port Lavaca. And then, of course, in the
summers, I used to spend the summer with Mrs. Schley , and Ethlyn was her
daughter. They'd come get me in the summer and I would stay in Victoria and so I
got to see a lot of movies. She would come to Tivoli. Mrs. Schley was just a good
family friend. They used to live in Tivoli many years ago, and I don't know why
they chose me to go...
She had a daughter your age?
Oh no. Ethlyn was grown and working. All her children were grown. I
don't know why. Beats me. But it was a fun time in the summertime for me. I had
a lot of fun. I had a lot of nice friends that I met in Victoria...you know
neighbors and friends of Mrs. Schley .
How old were you when you did that?
Oh gosh, I went up there for many years. I was in my teens, I mean, my
early years. I was probably 12, but I went before then, because when I was about
13, I know I was working for Aunt Matt in the Dry Goods Store, especially when
they had all the cotton pickers---would come in the summertime--so I worked in
the Dry Goods Store.
What did you do?
I waited on customers. And I swept the floors. Did stuff like that. I
don't know how much I earned, but I earned a little spending money, whatever. I
spent most of it on stuff out of the Dry Goods Store. (Laughed.) I bought
material and stuff. I know this one summer, Ethlyn needed somebody to cook. She
had married. She didn't marry until she was 35 years old. She had an apartment,
so she wanted me to come to Victoria and have the evening meal cooked and clean
her house.
She was working?
Oh yeah. She worked for a lawyer. She always did. In later years, she
became the sheriff of Victoria County.
Huh!
Anyway, Aunt Matt was very upset because I left and went to Victoria and
did that, but I did that when I was a teenager. And also, when I was a teenager,
I don't even know that I was in high school, but I might have been in high
school, I worked in the telephone office. You know back then, you had to plug in
the numbers.
Like those cable things?
Yeah. You stuck them in. Wow!
How did you learn how to do that?
Well, the lady who owned it just taught me.
So you had to plug people in...they'd ring you up.
Uh-huh. It would ring and you would answer, and they would tell you what
number they wanted...or if it was long distance call. It was just a switchboard.
For Tivoli? All of Tivoli?
Yeah.
And you did that when you were in high school?
Well, I was probably younger than that. I probably was 13 when I got my
Social Security number. Because they didn't get Social Security numbers for
babies then. When you started to work, you got your Social Security number.
And you would do that in the summers?
Oh, I did it other times, like on the weekends, if she wanted to go
somewhere or sometime at night. Or maybe even holidays. I can remember Mother
and them bringing food to me when I'd be working there.
That's neat.
The telephone office was in the Fridays' home...in the front of their
home.
Huh. Not like Southwestern Bell or anything. It was just right there in their
house.
Yeah.
Where did you shop? You said you liked looking at the Sears and Roebuck
Catalog. Did y'all buy from Sears and Roebuck?
Oh sure. We ordered from Sears and Roebuck.
What did you get?
I don't know. I suppose clothes or whatever. Most anything. When you
lived in a small town, that's what you did. Mother didn't have a car. We didn't
have a car. I can remember when we went to Louisiana, we had a car. But that's
the only car I can remember. My older sisters would talk about a Model Ts and
stuff they had, but, of course, after Daddy died, we did not have a car. We
walked everywhere. Tivoli's small enough.
Everything you needed you could walk to.
Right. You could go to church, to the grocery store, to school. And
then when we went to high school in Austwell, there was one year, in eleventh
grade, there was a family--they had sort of a van, I guess you'd say--I guess
the school paid that family to take us. And then, my senior year, we rode with a
teacher who taught there. She lived in Tivoli, and we rode with her. Not like
today, when all these kids have cars to go down the street. (Laughs.)
Where else did you shop?
When I was growing up, Tivoli was a really nice little town. They had
the Mercantile, which was hardware, dry goods and groceries, and we had several
drug stores and a number of cafes. What is now a cafe used to be the auditorium
in town, and they used to have dances. Across from the auditorium was a beer
joint, and then they had a pool hall, and a lot of service stations. We didn't
have a Dairy Queen or anything back then. They do have a Dairy Queen now.
There's not much else in Tivoli. There's a little tearoom they've opened, but,
like I say, there's hardly anything left in Tivoli. All the Main Street, where
they had the Dry Goods Store, and we had two or three grocery stores. Mr.
Worden had a grocery store and Elvita Herrera had a meat market when I was
growing up. And, the Crews had the drug store and a cafe combined. And Edward
Carroll had his drug store, which was in the same building as the post office.
Now, like I say, everything has changed now, because none of that is there
anymore. Oh, and we had Henry Garza also had a grocery store. It was a nice
little thriving town. And it did well.
Did most people work in the lumberyard? Or in cotton? Or ranching?
I guess they were mostly farmers. A big lot of cotton and grain. Of
course, my grandfather had all sorts of stuff. He had fruit trees and he had all
kinds of vegetables that he raised. And he raised cotton.
But no oil? There was some oil they found down there, but they didn't find
any oil on his land.
No.
Too bad. (Laughed.) Your Mom's house was close to the lumberyard, right?
Yes. Right across the street. But then she moved it later because the
lint and stuff from the gin was so bad it was ruining all of her flowers and
everything else, so they moved.
They just picked it up and moved it?
Yeah. It was on blocks. They moved it out to an acre outside of
town...on the other side of town, anyway.
How long did your Mom live?
She lived to be 90 years old.
She was one feisty woman to be able to raise eight children.
Yes. Of course, there were only five of us at home when Daddy died. But
Daddy was just 49. He had just had his forty-ninth birthday.
Hum. That's awful.
Uh-huh.
Where did you go to church?
Presbyterian Church. In Tivoli, they had a Baptist Church, a
Presbyterian Church, a Catholic Church, and an Assembly of God Church. Those
were the churches.
Your Mom was Presbyterian.
Uh-huh. My father was actually Catholic, but I don't know how much he
attended the Catholic Church. I don't remember him ever going to church.
So you were raised Presbyterian? Then when you married L.J., you became
Catholic. Before or after?
Before. I became Catholic in August, and we were married in November. I
had to take instructions.
You graduated from Austwell High School in 1944 and moved to San Antonio?
I went to Draughon's Business College. Actually I didn't complete my
complete course. Mountjoy Auto Parts--Mr. Craighead, he was the office manager
of Mountjoy Auto Parts--came to the business college to get somebody to work
in the office, so I decided to quit school and go to work.
It was a fateful decision, because it was right across from the bakery,
right?
No. Oh no. It was on 5th Street. L.J. was a mechanic. When he got out
of the service, his father started him at the very bottom. He had him work at
the garage at the bakery, and Mr. Meadows was a salesman at Mountjoy, and when
L.J. came in to get parts, he introduced me to him.
What year was that?
I think it was in 1946. I had my first date with him on July 13, 1946.
When did you all get married?
November 25, 1947.
Where did y'all go on your first date?
The Richter Ranch, I'll say that.
South of town, right? Kind of out by Palo Alto, I believe.
Yeah, out that direction. We went out there, and he had a jeep. He had
bought a jeep when he got out of the service. So, our first date was in a jeep.
(Laugh.) His older sister, Rosemary, had a lot of her friends out there.
Who were your neighbors in Tivoli? Aunt Matt (Mattie Tom) and Aunt Mag
(Maggie/Margaret)?
They weren't our neighbors. They were Mother and Daddy's neighbors when
they first got married. We lived a good little piece from them. It wasn't too
far to walk.
Now where was their store?
It was downtown on Main Street. In later years, Aunt Matt built it on
the corner of the highway, on 35, and Main Street. The Simms were our neighbors
and we had the Carrolls and also the Burchers and uh, I was trying to think, of
course, across the highway was the Schultzes. Mr. Schultz had a Texaco Service
Station, and he owned a bunch of houses. And I can remember living in one, two
or three of those houses when I was little. They were a Schultz house. Rental
houses. Before we moved to Louisiana, we were living in a Huffman house, which
was in a different part of town from all the Schultz houses. The Schultz houses
were all along Highway 35. Mr. Huffman's houses were along--What is that
highway?--Highway 111 or something? That other highway that goes into Tivoli.
So it wasn't until after your Dad died that your Mom had the money to buy a
house.
Yeah. Right. And that's only because Papa let her have it cheap. No, we
always had to rent houses, as far as I know. Well except Mother and Daddy when
they first married they had their house. I don't know how long they had it or
how long they lived there. But otherwise, when I was growing up, we lived in
rent houses.
Did you celebrate holidays growing up?
Oh, yeah. We always had holidays. Always had a Christmas tree. I can't
say we got much--you didn't get stuff like kids do nowadays---we probably got
one item.
Like what did you get?
Oh, I don't know. I can't really offhand remember. I remember one year
Mother gave me a little lamp. I have to say I was a little disappointed. I was
probably wanting a doll or something. (Laughed.)
Well, she gave you something useful.
I don't remember. I don't have a good memory for younger years.
But did you usually get a present for your birthday?
I don't especially remember getting gifts. It's not like birthdays nowadays,
and I don't especially remember getting gifts. We always had a birthday cake.
And, I didn't have a party until I was, in fact it was the year we moved to
Louisiana. I was nine and Wayne was seven. We had a birthday party together
that year. That's the only birthday party I remember ever having. Except my
seventy-fifth! (Laughed.) When we surprised you! That was fun. That was a fun party. Did y'all ever do
anything for Fourth of July? On the beach?
It wasn't on the beach. But we could go swimming.
What about Thanksgiving?
We always had Thanksgiving.
Did you know your Dad's parents very much?
No, I really didn't. Laura and Dell used to spend time down at the
ranch, but I never did as a kid. Daddy used to take us down there. But see, he
wasn't at home. In my memory, he wasn't home much. From the time I can remember,
he was away working. He worked in Refugio. He would come home on the weekends.
What did he do in Refugio?
He worked in the oil fields. So, he had to have had a car to drive back
and forth to Refugio. It's sure to have been the same car we drove to Louisiana.
But Laura and Dell got to know his Mom and Dad?
Yeah. Laura and Dell both spent time at the ranch. I don't know why I
didn't. I just never did.
Your paternal grandfather died before you were born. What about your paternal
grandmother?
She lived to be 89. She and Aunt Mary lived down on the ranch always.
Aunt Mary never married. There was a guy who lived there who helped. Over the
years, after Daddy died, Aunt Mary would come to town and sometimes she would
bring Mother some groceries, too. But she didn't come to town real often. It
wasn't that far. The ranch was only seven miles from Tivoli. The roads weren't
that good.
So you really didn't ever really know your paternal grandmother?
Well I knew her, but I just wasn't close to her like I was to my mother's
mother, because I spent a lot of time out at Grandma and Papa Bissett's. We
could walk out there, too. It was a pretty good little walk, but we could walk
to the country where they lived. I used to go out there a lot of times, 'cause,
Grandmaw did so much canning. They had fruit trees and whatever. I'd go out
there and help her with canning.
I remember peeling peaches and plums and stuff and all this stuff she would
can. They had orchards and grape vineyards and all sorts of stuff. I spent a
lot of time at Grandmaw and Papa's. I liked Aunt Mary and Grandma Duncan, but
I just wasn't close to them.
Well, it wasn't within walking distance, and you didn't have a car. You said
you spent time in Victoria. What about San Antonio?
Oh yeah. We spent a lot of time in the summer with Aunt Recie (Mother's
sister) and Uncle Arthur. They'd come and get us. Uncle Arthur was a traveling
salesman at that time, and he used to call on Aunt Matt. He, at one time, that
was part of his territory. He worked for A.B. Frank. In later years, he worked
for some other dry goods store, but I remember A.B. Frank very well. So he would
pick you all up and bring you back? Yeah. Wayne and I spent a lot of time together.
That one summer (1936), Darlene and I were there. In that one picture, you can
see her foot turned up. She was next door, and the guy next door had a soldering
iron she stepped on. Oh my God! I bet that hurt.
Yeah. She had a big blister on the bottom of her foot.
Did y'all ever go to Corpus?
Well, when Dell was working there. Mrs. Lenette Adkins, I know on
occasion--She had daughters that were a little older. She had one Darlene's age
and one Maldon's age--but anyway, I remember Clarkita, the oldest daughter, had
to have braces, so they had to go to Corpus pretty often, so I'd ride down with
them sometime and visit Dell.
The trips you took were mainly in Texas, right? Because you're quite the
traveler now.
I love to travel now. I never went anywhere. I did go one year--no two
years--somebody, I don't remember if it was Mr. Adkins, I don't remember who,
but a couple of nice gentlemen in Tivoli paid for me to go to the Presbyterian
Encampment in Kerrville. I remember one year Dickie and I rode up on the
bus, and we had to change buses. Another year, I guess the Barbers, Dickie's
mother and dad, took us to Kerrville the first year I went. That was a lot of
fun, too. I guess we were probably there two weeks.
How old were you?
I was a teenager. Somewhere along 12 or 13.
When you went to work at Mountjoy, your friend from Alice...what's her name?
Yes. Bernice Davenport. Her maiden name was May. She was from Wharton,
Texas. She wasn't married at the time. She didn't marry until she was 34. She
was almost twice my age. I was 17. She's at least 15 years older than I am. She
sort of took me under her wing, because I was fresh out of high school. We
became good friends then and have been friends forever. Just like Marian, who
lives out in California. We still keep in touch.
Now where'd you meet Marian?
At Mountjoy, too. Those are my two good friends from Mountjoy that I
still keep in touch with.
So how long did you work at Mountjoy?
Just three years. I started on November 6, 1944, and I quit November
6, 1947. L.J. went to AIB in Chicago
in 1948 for five months. We were there from March until the end of August. That
was really nice. We had a lot of good times there. I spent a lot of time at
Marshall Fields. I'd get on the subway and go downtown.
That was a change from Tivoli! (Laughed.)
Even San Antonio! While we were there, we lived at the Sheridan Plaza
Hotel, and we were close to the subway. It wasn't too many miles away. It was on
Sheridan Road.
Then Rick was born in 1948?
Right. October 28, 1948. Toby came July 18, 1954. Blair on August 27,
1957, and Reg on July 31, 1965.
Your sister, Dell, who is nine years older, is still living in Corpus. It's
her son, Robert, who gave me all of these pictures. And then your brother, Gaylan,
is still alive in Victoria. In Tivoli, did y'all feel the Depression? The crash
was in 1929. You said you had a garden and always had food.
You never felt deprived or anything?
No. I really didn't. Didn't know any better. I didn't feel deprived at
all.
You're like me, though, we both like a good bargain. Do you think your mother
influenced you on that?
Well, I just think it's because...even though I can afford most
anything I want nowadays, I still conserve because of my growing up. When you
had very little, you just don't splurge...at least I don't. I think it's because
of my background.
And you like to clip coupons.
Yep. Right.
Did your mother sew for you?
Oh, for sure. She always sewed. We almost always, though, got--I can
remember at Easter time we'd get white sandals. That might have had something to
do with Aunt Matt, because I think she may have given us stuff. We always had new
pair of shoes for Easter.
And an Easter dress?
I don't know particularly, but I think maybe we did...because for years
when I was growing up, I always thought that I had to have a new dress for
Easter. I still, more or less, do that. (Laugh.) Something new to wear for
Easter.
Did she make clothes out of flour sacks?
Mother always had material. She had bought patterns. I had a lot of
pretty dresses over the years that she made. I had some bought dresses, too.
Especially when I was a teenager. You know we'd go to Victoria. They had some
nice stores there. I can remember shopping some at Penney's...and they had a
store called Levy's that had real nice clothes.
Can you think of anything else I'm leaving out?
I know, as a kid, we spent a lot of time outdoors. When we lived at the
Huffman house, I remember there was a vacant lot back of our house that had
a big huisache
tree, and we spent many hours sitting up in the tree.
Really? That's neat. You know, I'm fascinated by your not having indoor
plumbing until you were older.
Well at night, you had what they called a slop jar. It had a lid, and
if you had to go to the bathroom at night, you used that. But during the day,
you just went to the two-holer. It was just a big, tall thing. And I can
remember how Mother had to put lye down in there.
Did y'all have toilet paper?
Well, you know, for many years, we just used the Sears-Roebuck Catalog.
Really?!
Really! In later years, we did have toilet tissue, but I can remember
years when we just had the catalog.
Huh! Thank you Mr. Sears! (Laughter.)
Texans
and The Great Depression Songs
of the Great Depression The Great Depression
and The New Deal Photographs
of the Great Depression Timeline of The Great
Depression 1920-1939
Herbert
Hoover Presidential Library and Museum Surviving
the Dustbowl The
Great Depression in Children's Books The
Great Depression and World War II, 1929-1945 The
Great Depression: An International Disaster of Perverse Economic Policies
"The History of Refugio County, Texas," The Refugio County History Book
Committee of The Texas Extension Homemakers Council of Refugio County (1836-1986
Sesquicentennial), Lucas Dubois, Sr., and Mary Angelique Landry (F67) entry by
Lucile Fagan Snider.
E-mail comments and queries to Denise
Barkis Richter, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, Communications Department, Palo
Alto College, 1400 W. Villaret Ave., San Antonio, Texas 78224.
She
was the sixth child of eight children (Laura Mae, 1913; Lawrence (Bubba), 1915;
LaDell (Dell), 1918; Maldon, 1922; Darlene, 1925; Mary Nell, 1927; Wayne, 1929;
and Gaylan, 1934) born to Mamie Mae Bissett Duncan and Joseph Wesley Duncan,
Jr., (left) who were married on January 22, 1913. Mary Nell Duncan was born
two and a half years before "Black
Thursday" (October 24, 1929), the day when the Stock Market crashed causing
the worst economic downturn in the history of the United States.
Mary Nell Duncan moved to San Antonio after she graduated from Austwell High
School in 1944.
She
was the salutatorian of her class. She attended Draughon's
Business College, but she didn't complete her coursework because she was
offered a full-time job at Mountjoy Auto Parts on Fifth Street. She worked at
Mountjoy's from November 6, 1944 through November 6, 1947. It was a fateful
decision, because her future husband, Louis J. (L.J.) Richter, was working as
a mechanic for Butter Krust Bakeries, and he came into Mountjoy to buy parts
for the delivery trucks. They married on November 25, 1947, and they had four
children (Richard, 1948; Tobin, 1954; Blair, 1957; and Regan Anne, 1965). They
have six grandchildren: Kevin (1975), Aaron (1979) and Mark (1983), sons of
Richard and Sharon Richter; Aedan Louise (1996), daughter of Blair and Denise
Richter; and Katie (1998) and Jen (2001), daughters of Regan and Todd Ebert.
Mary Nell and L.J. would have celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary in November
of 1997, but L.J. passed away in August of 1997 to Lou Gehrig's Disease. Mary Nell
is a member of St. Pius X Catholic
Church, she is an avid traveler, and she takes aerobics and line-dancing
classes. Mary Nell celebrated her 76th birthday on February 17, 2003.
I remember
it being very dark. We used kerosene lamps, you know. We didn't have electricity
at the time. But, of course, mother later got electricity. She had kitchen cabinets
built in. And, of course, we got the indoor plumbing, and we got it all fixed
up over the years.
Oh yeah! Papa Bissett always had Bar-B-Qs for the Fourth of July. Fourth
of July's were always fun. We always went to the bay. Sometimes we'd go down
to Rockport or Mills Wharf, which was outside of Tivoli, and yeah, Papa Bissett,
he had all of his brothers and sisters. They were a big family. And he always
had Ol' Walter, a black man from Tivoli, Papa always took him to bar-b-q the
meat.
I always feel like I had...I mean, it didn't affect me...I had a good time growing
up, even though we lived in a small town. I mean I liked my life growing up.
I wouldn't want to change anything about it.
I thoroughly enjoyed this interview with my
mother-in-law. Her son, Blair, and I were married on July 3, 1992, and this
is the first time that I've heard the full story of her childhood, which
was during the height of the Great Depression. I've heard snippets over
the years, but this interview filled in the blanks. Also, I am delighted
that Mary Nell's grandchildren and great-grandchildren now have a permanent
record of the early years of this remarkable woman, whose life as a daughter,
a sister, a wife, a mother, a grandmother and a friend exemplifies a life
of service. Few people on the planet are as thoughtful as Mary Nell. Without
fail, she remembers every holiday, birthday and significant day, such as
anniversaries and graduations, with a well-chosen card and a "fun money"
check. She's known for spoiling her six grandchildren rotten: milk shakes,
games, and unlimited videos. (Our daughter would like to move in with her!)
I am very blessed that "Gran," a woman shaped by her humble beginnings in
Tivoli, Texas, is my mother-in-law. I couldn't ask for anyone better.
Red River Authority's Ben H. Procter's overview
of Texans' lives during The Great Depression.
Prepared by Professor Catherine Lavender for
courses in The Department of History, The College of Staten Island of The City
University of New York.
Definitions of key terms
Causes of the Great Depression
Problems of the Great Depression
Philosophies of President Hoover and President Roosevelt
Successes and failures of Roosevelt's
New Deal programs
Legacy of the New Deal in comparison with other Deals
Dust Storms
Farms for Sale
Relocating: On
the Road
Migrant Workers
Women and Children
Life During the
Depression
Unemployed
Breadlines and Soup Kitchens
Civilian
Conservation Corps
President Hoover's library's
"take" on The Great Depression.
PBS's "American Experience" series, which explored the era
of The Great Depression.
From Carol Hurst's Children's
Literature site.
Recipes of The Great
Depression
Features "Poor Man's Casserole," "Hot Dog Casserole," and
"Stuffed Cabbage".
Library of Congress' site
on this period in our nation's history.
Book by Thomas E. Hall and J. David Ferguson