TRANSCRIPTION
Where were you born?
I was born on February 26, 1932 in Cestohowa on a farm. I lived with my mother and father and my two brothers and my sister. We had about 75 acres of land that we rented from somebody. We had horses and mules that were used for plowing and planting the fields. We planted crops like peanuts.
Where did you live most of your childhood?
I guess you could say I lived most of my childhood in Floresville. We moved to Floresville from Cestohowa when I was about six years old. Then after me and Dorothy got married, we moved to Elmendorf. We've been here ever since.
Where did you attend school?
It was a school in the country. The school was more or less like an old house that was converted into a school. There were different classes for all of the kids in the same building. All the classes from first to about eighth grade.
What was a typical day in your life like while you were going to school?
We had to walk to school, which was about three miles. We would study just like any other school, I suppose. During recess we would play hide-and-go-seek. Some of the kids in my grade were about 10 years older than me. There were probably about two teachers at our school. One had grades one through four and the other had four to eight.
What sort of things were you interested in as a teenager?
Well, since I didn't know anything but farming, I guess I was interested in farming. We didn't have much to do for fun. Fun to us was playing with a wheelbarrow or a wagon in the mud. Sometimes we would play marbles. We had a radio. We would listen to music like polkas on the radio. Back then the radio had stories that were sort of like television shows now. I liked The Shadow. I also liked comic books. I had a box full of them. I think my favorite thing was reading comic books. I liked Superman, Batman, Captain America, Captain Marvel, the Green Lantern, Submariner, Daredevil, the Black Terror, the Human Torch, Dick Tracy--a bunch of them. You know, I could be rich if I kept those comic books.
Was there a lot of propaganda in the comic books? This was the Cold War era and comic books were often used to portray Communists as evil and that sort of thing.
Oh yeah. It seemed like for a while everybody was afraid of Communists. Captain America was always fighting them. I mean, we heard about that kind of stuff on the news but it was like we had our own world out in the country. All of the stuff that was happening in the world seemed kind of far away from us. I don't think we really even knew what a Communist was. We just knew they were bad guys from Russia who wanted to kill us and take away our freedom. At least that's what we thought at the time.
What was a typical day in your life like when you were in your late teens?
By the time I was 16 or maybe even earlier than that, I dropped out of school because I hated it. I guess I thought it was boring. I wanted to stay home and help work on the farm. I started the day by washing my face. Then I'd eat breakfast. A typical breakfast would just be eggs. We raised our own chickens and had our own eggs. After breakfast I would go work in the field. What kind of work I did in the field depended on what time of the year it was. It would probably be dark by the time we finished. After work I'd come inside and take a bath. We'd eat supper and I'd listen to the radio and read comic books. We didn't have any running water, so we'd have to bring the water in with buckets and heat it on a stove with a pot to get warm water to bathe in.
What were your views on the political issues of the day around the time the Korean War broke out?
I listened to the news on the radio. I didn't read the newspaper cause we didn't get it. The nearest town was about five miles. We didn't have a car because we didn't have money to buy one for a while. I remember using a horse and buggy for a while, and eventually we got a Model T and then a 1929 Chevrolet. I thought the Korean War was a bad idea. Well, I'd say any war is a bad idea. People getting killed is never good. I remember growing up during World War II and it was pretty terrible. I didn't like the idea of a war no matter when it was. When I got drafted they asked me what I wanted to choose. My first choice was to be a cook. My second choice was to be an engineer, and that is what I got.
What did you do while you were serving in the Army?
I got my basic training in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. There the first thing we did was learn how to use a rifle. Then we learned how to set mines and use hand grenades. I never left the country. I went to Camp Rucker, Alabama, some place in South Carolina, and Camp Stewart, which I think was in Georgia. Basically I just learned how to build things. I added this room to our house with the stuff I learned in the Army. Like carpentry skills, you know? We also learned how to build bridges. We built a lot of bridges.
Do you have any memories of segregation?
Not really. My first memories of anything like that are from the Army. I was pretty amazed to see it actually. They would make colored people move to the back of the bus and separate them from the white people in restaurants. I never saw much of that growing up. At my school we played with Mexicans and colored kids and were friends with them. There weren't very many colored kids around there, though. I never saw anything like segregation until later in life.
What were you doing during the Vietnam war?
By that time Dorothy and I were married and raising the kids. Vietnam was pretty much like any other thing. It seemed really far away. I mean it was really terrible and everything, but we were sort of out of touch living on our little farm in the country. It's the same now really, with all this stuff in Iraq happening. We just go through our daily lives and take care of the animals and the fields. What else can you do?
What did you think of the anti-war movement during that time?
Well we hated hippies. I mean, they were just stupid--with their long hair. And you know, always doing drugs and crap like that. They caused a lot of trouble and everything too. I mean, that's what we thought at the time, you know? But like I said, we really didn't know much about what was going on. They were against the war, so you know at least they got that right.
You spent most of your adult civilian life working at U.S. Brick. Can you talk about that?
Sure. I started working at the brick place here in Elmendorf after I got back from the Army. By that time we didn't have enough land to really make a living as farmers, you know? We still raked and baled hay but it was just for a little extra money on the side. At the brick company I did all sorts of things. I drove a forklift, unloaded trucks, that sort of thing. I retired a few years ago.
Were you unionized?
No. I remember some guys at work talking about it once upon a time, but they were afraid of getting fired. We would have liked to make more money but at least we made enough to get by.
As far as you know, were you ever forced to do work that violated safety laws and regulations?
I'm not sure. There's always dangers when you are doing work with heavy objects and stuff, right? A couple of times they would come to us with new safety regulations and stuff. So I guess they were trying to keep us up to date, but who knows how long ago those regulations were actually put in to law.
What in your life comes to mind most when you think of the Cold War?
Hm... probably when President Kennedy was killed. That was pretty big. I guess it had more of an effect on us cause we live here in Texas. That and the thing with the missiles in Cuba. That was actually pretty scary, now that I think of it.
ANALYSIS
If one thing is made abundantly clear by this interview, it is that it was very difficult to stay informed or even find the time to care about social issues while living in rural south Texas during the Cold War. My grandfather and his community had very limited access to information during this time, and the information that they did receive was heavily loaded with propaganda and spin. This fact, however, really did not bother most of the residents of Elmendorf. They were so busy trying to make a living for themselves that they didn't have time to dwell on such things. Even when my grandfather was in the military, he admits that he was for the most part, wholly ignorant about what was going on in the larger scheme of things. Fortunately though, rural south Texas was an exceedingly isolated segment of the American population during this era. This allowed them to be shielded, or at least distanced, from the negative effects of the Cold War and McCarthyism. To them, the Cold War was like a storm passing in the distance. They could hear the thunder rumbling, and at times may have even been unsettled by it, but the storm never passed directly overhead.
ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY
Elmendorf - This website was created by a student here at Palo Alto. It contains a thorough history of the small town of Elmendorf.
The Shadow Radio Theater - This website allows you to listen to all of the classic episodes of The Shadow.
History of the Ford Model T - A history of the Ford Model T.
Fort Leonard Wood - The website for Fort Leonard Wood
The Cuban Missile Crisis - A website with lots of in-depth information about the Cuban Missile crisis.
American Cultural History - 1960 - 1969 - A website about 60s culture (including hippies).
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